Return to Answer

Toxic is in the eye of the beholder

At present, what is toxic in Stack land is the consistent lack of effort put into questions, and some answers. It's off putting. To me, anyway. But I saw it differently when I first joined.

You ask:

What exactly about the community is so toxic and unwelcoming?

As a new user, my answer is simple: the SE community in 2015 when I joined talked at you, not to you, if they communicated with you at all. That is unwelcoming. The tone was not neutral, in most cases, though a few users stood out because that did talk to you, not at you. (Oh, heck, why not a shout out to Niel Slater and Nathan Tuggy for their being welcoming voices, to my ear).

Now, as a user for not quite 5 years, and as someone who spends time in the review queues on five different SE's, what is toxic to me now, what makes me reluctant to sign on, is the blatant disregard for the fundamental aims of the stack model: high signal to noise ratio. No matter how one slices it, the attempt to be more welcoming has created an empowerment zone for "how dare you down vote my valid opinion" when this network is not about opinions. Granted, when I report comments like that they usually go away, but the friction is present in a lot of interactions.

Whatever it is that the company is trying to do to lubricate the friction in the varied user experiences - old user, new user, and people like me, somewhere in between - I don't think it's working. Or, maybe it's a work in progress and maybe "we'll get there."

In one of the stacks that I frequent, I made the observation that a stack cannot be all things to all people. It was kind of ironic that I made that post, since I have made a number of complaints that the new user experience stinks due to (1) the community attitude of talking at people, not to them, as a cultural norm that developed over time and (2) how tone comes across in a text based communication medium. Sometimes, what isn't intended as abrasive is received that way. I am sure some of the stuff that I post or comment on in a neutral tone can be received as abrasive.

Caveat: depending upon whom you interact with, that (caustic tone) isn't always the case. Tone, sent and received, can be very user dependent.

The attraction remains: lots of signal, not as much noise. Rare for any internet site.

I went and adapted to the unique model that is Stackland, and even defended it when I still had frustrations with the internal cultural norms of Stackland. Now, the PTB want to let the noise makers in by laying out a welcome mat while at the same time dispensing with community managers ... without replacement? (Odd choice, thinks I) That, the addition of noise rather than signal, is a toxin that I can get anywhere on the internet.

Stackland was supposed to be different.

PS: Can we all adapt a non caustic tone? We can all work on it, but let's be realistic here. An organization that runs on the input of volunteers is hard to run. (I've mentioned that elsewhere on MSE, in terms of my experiences with that). Coming up with a unified "voice" isn't going to happen when hundreds of thousands of voices are speaking.

Toxic is in the eye of the beholder

At present, what is toxic in Stack land is the consistent lack of effort put into questions, and some answers. It's off putting. To me, anyway. But I saw it differently when I first joined.

You ask:

What exactly about the community is so toxic and unwelcoming?

As a new user, my answer is simple: the SE community in 2015 when I joined talked at you, not to you, if they communicated with you at all. That is unwelcoming. The tone was not neutral, in most cases, though a few users stood out because that did talk to you, not at you. (Oh, heck, why not a shout out to @NeilSlater and @NathanTuggy for their being welcoming voices, to my ear).

Now, as a user for not quite 5 years, and as someone who spends time in the review queues on five different SE's, what is toxic to me now, what makes me reluctant to sign on, is the blatant disregard for a fundamental aim of the stack model: high signal to noise ratio. A result of the attempt to be more welcoming has created an empowerment zone for "how dare you down vote my valid opinion?" when this network is not about opinions. That's what forums are for. Granted, when I report comments like that they usually go away, but the friction is present in a lot of interactions. That friction is the problem that SE/SO seems to be trying to solve.

Whatever it is that the company is trying to do to lubricate the friction in the varied user experiences - old user, new user, and people like me, somewhere in between - I don't think it's working. Or, maybe it's a work in progress and maybe "we'll get there."

In one of the stacks that I frequent, I made the observation that a stack cannot be all things to all people. It was kind of ironic that I made that post, since I have made a number of complaints that the new user experience stinks due to (1) the community attitude of talking at people, not to them, as a cultural norm that developed over time and (2) how tone comes across in a text based communication medium. Sometimes, what isn't intended as abrasive is received that way. I am sure some of the stuff that I post or comment on in a neutral tone can be received as abrasive.

Caveat: depending upon whom you interact with, that (caustic tone) isn't always the case. Tone, sent and received, can be very user dependent.

The attraction remains: lots of signal, not as much noise. Rare for any internet site.

I went and adapted to the unique model that is Stackland, and even defended it when I still had frustrations with the internal cultural norms of Stackland. Now, the PTB want to let the noise makers in by laying out a welcome mat while at the same time dispensing with community managers ... without replacement? (Odd choice, thinks I). That, the addition of noise rather than signal, is a toxin that I can get anywhere on the internet.

Stackland was supposed to be different.

PS: Can we all adapt a non caustic tone? We can all work on it, but let's be realistic here. An organization that runs on the input of volunteers is hard to run. (I've mentioned that elsewhere on MSE, in terms of my experiences with that). Coming up with a unified "voice" isn't going to happen when hundreds of thousands of voices are speaking.

Toxic is in the eye of the beholder

At present, what is toxic in Stack land is the consistent lack of effort put into questions, and some answers. It's off putting. To me, anyway. But I saw it differently when I first joined.

You ask:

What exactly about the community is so toxic and unwelcoming?

As a new user, my answer is simple: the SE community in 2015 when I joined talked at you, not to you, if they communicated with you at all. That is unwelcoming. The tone was not neutral, in most cases, though a few users stood out because that did talk to you, not * at* you.

Now, as a user for not quite 5 years, and as someone who spends time in the review queues on five different SE's, what is toxic to me now, what makes me reluctant to sign on, is the blatant disregard for the fundamental aims of the stack model: high signal to noise ratio. No matter how one slices it, the attempt to be more welcoming has created an empowerment zone for "how dare you down vote my valid opinion" when this network is not about opinions. Granted, when I report comments like that they usually go away, but the friction is present in a lot of interactions.

Whatever it is that the company is trying to do to lubricate the friction in the varied user experiences - old user, new user, and people like me, somewhere in between - I don't think it's working. Or, maybe it's a work in progress and maybe "we'll get there."

In one of the stacks that I frequent, I made the observation that a stack cannot be all things to all people. It was kind of ironic that I made that post, since I have made a number of complaints that the new user experience stinks due to (1) the community attitude of talking at people, not to them, as a cultural norm that developed over time and (2) how tone comes across in a text based communication medium. Sometimes, what isn't intended as abrasive is received that way. I am sure some of the stuff that I post or comment on in a neutral tone can be received as abrasive.

Caveat: depending upon whom you interact with, that (caustic tone) isn't always the case. Tone, sent and received, can be very user dependent.

The attraction remains: lots of signal, not as much noise. Rare for any internet site.

I went and adapted to the unique model that is Stackland, and even defended it when I still had frustrations with the internal cultural norms of Stackland. Now, the PTB want to let the noise makers in by laying out a welcome mat while at the same time dispensing with community managers ... without replacement? (Odd choice, thinks I) That, the addition of noise rather than signal, is a toxin that I can get anywhere on the internet.

Stackland was supposed to be different.

PS: Can we all adapt a non caustic tone? We can all work on it, but let's be realistic here. An organization that runs on the input of volunteers is hard to run. (I've mentioned that elsewhere on MSE, in terms of my experiences with that). Coming up with a unified "voice" isn't going to happen when hundreds of thousands of voices are speaking.

Toxic is in the eye of the beholder

At present, what is toxic in Stack land is the consistent lack of effort put into questions, and some answers. It's off putting. To me, anyway. But I saw it differently when I first joined.

You ask:

What exactly about the community is so toxic and unwelcoming?

As a new user, my answer is simple: the SE community in 2015 when I joined talked at you, not to you, if they communicated with you at all. That is unwelcoming. The tone was not neutral, in most cases, though a few users stood out because that did talk to you, not at you. (Oh, heck, why not a shout out to Niel Slater and Nathan Tuggy for their being welcoming voices, to my ear).

Now, as a user for not quite 5 years, and as someone who spends time in the review queues on five different SE's, what is toxic to me now, what makes me reluctant to sign on, is the blatant disregard for the fundamental aims of the stack model: high signal to noise ratio. No matter how one slices it, the attempt to be more welcoming has created an empowerment zone for "how dare you down vote my valid opinion" when this network is not about opinions. Granted, when I report comments like that they usually go away, but the friction is present in a lot of interactions.

Whatever it is that the company is trying to do to lubricate the friction in the varied user experiences - old user, new user, and people like me, somewhere in between - I don't think it's working. Or, maybe it's a work in progress and maybe "we'll get there."

In one of the stacks that I frequent, I made the observation that a stack cannot be all things to all people. It was kind of ironic that I made that post, since I have made a number of complaints that the new user experience stinks due to (1) the community attitude of talking at people, not to them, as a cultural norm that developed over time and (2) how tone comes across in a text based communication medium. Sometimes, what isn't intended as abrasive is received that way. I am sure some of the stuff that I post or comment on in a neutral tone can be received as abrasive.

Caveat: depending upon whom you interact with, that (caustic tone) isn't always the case. Tone, sent and received, can be very user dependent.

The attraction remains: lots of signal, not as much noise. Rare for any internet site.

I went and adapted to the unique model that is Stackland, and even defended it when I still had frustrations with the internal cultural norms of Stackland. Now, the PTB want to let the noise makers in by laying out a welcome mat while at the same time dispensing with community managers ... without replacement? (Odd choice, thinks I) That, the addition of noise rather than signal, is a toxin that I can get anywhere on the internet.

Stackland was supposed to be different.

PS: Can we all adapt a non caustic tone? We can all work on it, but let's be realistic here. An organization that runs on the input of volunteers is hard to run. (I've mentioned that elsewhere on MSE, in terms of my experiences with that). Coming up with a unified "voice" isn't going to happen when hundreds of thousands of voices are speaking.

Toxic is in the eye of the beholder

At present, what is toxic in Stack land is the consistent lack of effort put into questions, and some answers. It's off putting. To me, anyway. But I saw it differently when I first joined.

You ask:

What exactly about the community is so toxic and unwelcoming?

As a new user, my answer is simple: the SE community in 2015 when I joined talked at you, not to you, if they communicated with you at all. That is unwelcoming. The tone was not neutral, in most cases, though a few users stood out because that did talk to you, not * at* you.

Now, as a user for not quite 5 years, and as someone who spends time in the review queues on five different SE's, what is toxic to me now, what makes me reluctant to sign on, is the blatant disregard for the fundamental aims of the stack model: high signal to noise ratio. No matter how one slices it, the attempt to be more welcoming has created an empowerment zone for "how dare you down vote my valid opinion" when this network is not about opinions. Granted, when I report comments like that they usually go away, but the friction is present in a lot of interactions.

Whatever it is that the company is trying to do to lubricate the friction in the varied user experiences - old user, new user, and people like me, somewhere in between - I don't think it's working. Or, maybe it's a work in progress and maybe "we'll get there."

In one of the stacks that I frequent, I made the observation that a stack cannot be all things to all people. It was kind of ironic that I made that post, since I have made a number of complaints that the new user experience stinks due to the community attitude of talking at people, not to them, as a matter of a cultural norms that have developed over time and how tone comes across in a text based communication medium. Caveat: depending upon whom you interact with, that (caustic tone) isn't always the case. It, tone, is very user dependent.

The attraction remains: lots of signal, not as much noise. Rare for any internet site.

So I went and adapted to the unique model that is Stackland, and even defended it when I still had some frustrations with the internal cultural norms of Stackland, and now they want to let the noise makers in by laying out a welcome mat. That is, to me, a toxin that I can get anywhere on the internet.

Stackland was supposed to be different.

Toxic is in the eye of the beholder

At present, what is toxic in Stack land is the consistent lack of effort put into questions, and some answers. It's off putting. To me, anyway. But I saw it differently when I first joined.

You ask:

What exactly about the community is so toxic and unwelcoming?

As a new user, my answer is simple: the SE community in 2015 when I joined talked at you, not to you, if they communicated with you at all. That is unwelcoming. The tone was not neutral, in most cases, though a few users stood out because that did talk to you, not * at* you.

Now, as a user for not quite 5 years, and as someone who spends time in the review queues on five different SE's, what is toxic to me now, what makes me reluctant to sign on, is the blatant disregard for the fundamental aims of the stack model: high signal to noise ratio. No matter how one slices it, the attempt to be more welcoming has created an empowerment zone for "how dare you down vote my valid opinion" when this network is not about opinions. Granted, when I report comments like that they usually go away, but the friction is present in a lot of interactions.

Whatever it is that the company is trying to do to lubricate the friction in the varied user experiences - old user, new user, and people like me, somewhere in between - I don't think it's working. Or, maybe it's a work in progress and maybe "we'll get there."

In one of the stacks that I frequent, I made the observation that a stack cannot be all things to all people. It was kind of ironic that I made that post, since I have made a number of complaints that the new user experience stinks due to (1) the community attitude of talking at people, not to them, as a cultural norm that developed over time and (2) how tone comes across in a text based communication medium. Sometimes, what isn't intended as abrasive is received that way. I am sure some of the stuff that I post or comment on in a neutral tone can be received as abrasive.

Caveat: depending upon whom you interact with, that (caustic tone) isn't always the case. Tone, sent and received, can be very user dependent.

The attraction remains: lots of signal, not as much noise. Rare for any internet site.

I went and adapted to the unique model that is Stackland, and even defended it when I still had frustrations with the internal cultural norms of Stackland. Now, the PTB want to let the noise makers in by laying out a welcome mat while at the same time dispensing with community managers ... without replacement? (Odd choice, thinks I) That, the addition of noise rather than signal, is a toxin that I can get anywhere on the internet.

Stackland was supposed to be different.

PS: Can we all adapt a non caustic tone? We can all work on it, but let's be realistic here. An organization that runs on the input of volunteers is hard to run. (I've mentioned that elsewhere on MSE, in terms of my experiences with that). Coming up with a unified "voice" isn't going to happen when hundreds of thousands of voices are speaking.