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18

"Yes, I am proposing to remove the whole graduation thing." -> I agree. I think that's probably in the works down the road. Like Ana said: this is the first step. We haven't made any changes to this process in 5 years, and we're finally re-examining it now. It used to be one step. Now it's two steps (phases). We'll keep working on it, and it will be more steps soon.
– hairboat
Commented Aug 19, 2015 at 19:21
2

I really recommend you read some of Robert's answers on this subject. It sounds pretty obvious that SE is aware that the system is imperfect but that it is best to implement things gradually rather than shocking the system with a sudden change.
– Catija
Commented Aug 19, 2015 at 21:12
16

I couldn't have said it better myself. ++ The only thing I can possibly add is that if there is a technical reason for tying site design to privileges (as the system is currently implemented), I really wish someone from SE would just say so. As a programmer, I can understand that something is coupled together that shouldn't be, but I just don't buy the "you need something to celebrate" line.
– RubberDuck
Commented Aug 19, 2015 at 23:06
1

Did I understand well that you in fact propose: "revert to the previous state, which was even worse, before the long-term plans can be implemented"? The state proposed now is a stage on the path to the abandonning of "raduation", at least the SE staff propose it as such. You nitpick as though it was the definite state.
– Pavel
Commented Aug 20, 2015 at 9:03
1

@Pavel "as you thought it was the definite state" ... well. Yes I thought exactly that. If you check the timestamps, the explanatory comments / answer by abby hairboat were only posted until after this answer. Which means that the premise of this answer is flawed. Then again I do not propose "reverting" to the old state. I just state that the current mechanism is flawed. Maybe less so or more so than the old mechanism, but still flawed that I am not willing to settle for that
– Vogel612's Shadow
Commented Aug 20, 2015 at 9:13
@Vogel612'sShadow: now I understand your answer. I've understood that the proposed state is meant as a base for further discussion and probably will be changed later from the question itself + from older posts on this topic, but this might not be clear enough without Abby's post. What I don't understand is that your post gets quite a lot of upvotes even after Abby's clarification. Is it just a fear that things will freeze in the current state, in spite of some mods' statements?
– Pavel
Commented Aug 20, 2015 at 9:34
4

-1 Honestly, I think it's a great idea to have a point of no return for sites. Once a site is graduated (which should a lot quicker now) you know for sure that it's going to stay around and based on that a lot of choices are made (design, migration, etc.), but the main reason for -1'ing would be that the idea of seperating the different things that fall under graduation even further would destroy the homogeneity of the SE network significantly. Something that really should be limited as much as possible. (cont.)
– David Mulder
Commented Aug 20, 2015 at 10:12
2

The only real problem is that graduation should truly be graduation, and that's now (more or less) happening. As soon as it's clear that a site is going to stay there is no more waiting for resources (design) and with a click of a button the site changes. All current problems are primarily caused due to sites staying in beta all the time whilst they actually aren't truly in beta.
– David Mulder
Commented Aug 20, 2015 at 10:14
2

@DavidMulder - a graduated site can still decline and die a miserable death. Ask Patents, anyone?
– Deer Hunter
Commented Aug 20, 2015 at 10:39
@DavidMulder the concept of "beta" and "graduated" is destroying the homogenity of the SE network. What difference does it make whether a site runs community ads or doesn't? Or has elected moderators instead of appointed pro-tems? What significant difference to an outsider does graduation bring (apart from design)? Your point seems moot to me, because the most significant parts of graduation are all about moderation, which is in no way related to the "homogenity of the SE network"
– Vogel612's Shadow
Commented Aug 20, 2015 at 10:47
@DeerHunter As far as I know the idea is that even despite the decline the patents.SE will not be deleted. Something that can happen still happen to beta sites.
– David Mulder
Commented Aug 20, 2015 at 11:35
2

@Vogel612'sShadow A tryout phase before committing to something makes a lot of sense. And commitment means things like running moderator elections, allocating resources, allowing migrations (more freely), advertising it, etc. And no, it definitely doesn't matter a lot to outsiders, but SE is already a confusing enough place for insiders as it is, making that even more confusing rather than less confusing is a terrible idea. After all, as there is a single point in time where commitment is decide and all those things flow from that point, why split at all :S .
– David Mulder
Commented Aug 20, 2015 at 11:41
5

Would it be fair to summarize your answer like this? The process a site goes through (instead of being beta/graduated) would be analogous to what a user does: earning privs in steps as it goes along.
– Jan Murphy
Commented Aug 20, 2015 at 15:33
1

@JanMurphy that sounds wonderful, yes you could say that
– Vogel612's Shadow
Commented Aug 20, 2015 at 15:38
I think I would group these into 4 categories, but not be completely independent. Removing beta label, including in footer, and community ads together, increased reputation/ migration paths (reputation could be first, but should be a requisite to migration), elections, and site design.
– PearsonArtPhoto
Commented Aug 20, 2015 at 18:27

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