Timeline for Is "Innocent until proven guilty" merely a cliche used in legal dramas?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
17 events
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| Feb 9 at 12:10 | comment | added | Trish | @MichaelKay Clarified for you - the legal facts make up the legal fiction. there's still a difference. | |
| Feb 9 at 12:09 | history | edited | Trish | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 8 at 10:26 | comment | added | Michael Kay | "Actual guilt or innocence is a fact". No it's not, it's a legal fiction. Guilt may depend on someone's state of mind (intent) which not only is impossible to determine objectively, but is itself a fuzzy concept especially when people aren't behaving rationally. | |
| Feb 7 at 22:47 | comment | added | Trish | @JohnBollinger the wording legal fact was deliberately, because you might have killed John Doe in cold planned murder, but the jury found you innocent, then the legal fact is that you are innocent. And you are found guilty of having killed Jane Doe you never met, then it is a legal fact that you are guilty of her murder. | |
| Feb 7 at 22:38 | comment | added | John Bollinger | Yes, @gnasher729, that is entirely my understanding. I just found this answer's wording a little confusing, and I wanted to make sure it was saying the same thing. | |
| Feb 7 at 22:33 | comment | added | gnasher729 | @JohnBollinger, yes, they would be separate facts. I either did what I was accused of or I didn’t. (And if I did it there might be a valid excuse). So I am in layman’s terms guilty or innocent. And when the trial is over, it is declared that I am guilty beyond reasonable doubt, or not. That makes me legally guilty or not. We hope that people who are factually guilty will end up legally guilty, and those factually not guilty end up legally not guilty, but unfortunately that cannot be guaranteed. | |
| Feb 7 at 21:13 | comment | added | John Bollinger | To clarify, do I understand correctly that when you say "whether someone is guilty or innocent of a crime is a legal and objective fact", you are distinguishing whether the person in question is objectively guilty from whether they are guilty under the law as two separate facts? | |
| Feb 7 at 19:13 | history | edited | Trish | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 7 at 19:00 | history | edited | Trish | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 7 at 18:52 | history | edited | Trish | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 7 at 18:48 | comment | added | Trish | Let us continue this discussion in chat. | |
| Feb 7 at 17:03 | history | edited | Trish | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 7 at 16:57 | history | edited | Trish | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 6 at 22:32 | history | edited | Trish | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 6 at 22:22 | history | edited | Trish | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 6 at 22:14 | history | edited | Trish | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 6 at 22:08 | history | answered | Trish | CC BY-SA 4.0 |