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11it's a useful fiction, but "innocent until arrested" would be a better phrase for how justice works in the USA. Knowing they are innocent is scant relief to people who can't afford bail yet sit in jail awaiting the trial that could let them free.– Tiger GuyCommented Feb 7 at 15:01
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3100% @TigerGuy --- the US is so deeply committed to mass incarceration that we've fully abandoned a full legal process for all but the most wealthy or "famous". The vast majority are forced through the plea bargain system through financial pressures and threats to their mental and physical health and safety.– Mike MCommented Feb 7 at 15:11
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3Did you also see (their other comment](law.stackexchange.com/questions/99437/…) which reads "Presumed" is the keyword. The OP means "is"? It's rather important to the point they were trying to make.– marcelmCommented Feb 7 at 21:20
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For serious crimes, a preliminary assessment of a person's guilt/innocence is made when deciding if a person is granted bail. It could be argued that people who are not granted bail are not presumed completely innocent before final judgement. (Of course, whether bail was granted has no affect on the final judgement).– XavierCommented Feb 9 at 1:17
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@Xavier, that's not true. Bail is set by the history of a person, whether they are a flight risk or if they have a history of being violent, not whether the judge thinks they are guilty. americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resources/…– computercarguyCommented Feb 9 at 21:42
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