Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions

Important information Shortcuts WP:AE WP:ARE Please use this page only to: request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator, request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic, request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators. For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}. Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following: All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction. The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may: ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision; request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email. Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template. A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted. Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies: The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change,[a] or is no longer an administrator;[b] or The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and: the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or the restriction was an indefinite block. A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction: a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE, a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN, a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA. Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped. Standard of review On community review Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if: the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process), the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption. On Arbitration Committee review Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if: the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process), the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action. ^ The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction. ^ This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator. Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state: Appeals by sanctioned editors Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may: ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision; request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org). Modifications by administrators No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without: the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below). Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped. Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied. Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions. Important notes: For a request to succeed, either (i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or (ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails. While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify. These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature. All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue. Information for administrators processing requests Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give. A couple of reminders: Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request. When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X". Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Wikipedia and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Wikipedia policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it. More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated. Closing a thread: Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days. Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct. You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages. Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log. Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning My very best wishes

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

PaulT2022 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user �� block log) 15:08, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

My very best wishes (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

1. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World_War_II_and_the_history_of_Jews_in_Poland#My_very_best_wishes_bans
2. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World_War_II_and_the_history_of_Jews_in_Poland#Impact_on_the_Eastern_Europe_topic_area_(II)
3. Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Eastern_Europe#Contentious_topic_designation

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 9-13 June: Here, "My very best wishes", in violation of the broadly construed World War II in Poland topic ban, edits an article that discusses WWII monuments in Poland specifically, and buildings constructed by Nazi Germany and Soviet regimes in Eastern Europe more generally, edit-warring to reintroduce poorly sourced POV that has been challenged by multiple editors. (Edit-warring diffs in the comments below.)
2. 7 June, 17 June: In another violation of the topic ban, MVBW edits an article about a slogan widely associated in the past with OUN, notable for its participation in Holocaust in Poland, and discusses whether a salute used by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, fighting in Poland during WWII, is reminiscent of the salute used by the members of OUN.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

20 May: My very best wishes was topic-banned from WWII in Poland following a previous arbitration decision.

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on the 20 August 2022

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This request isn't merely an attempt to formally escalate arguably marginal topic ban violations. I was involved in the recent Totalitarian architecture AfD and observed how many of the findings from the arbitration case apply to the broader area of MVBW's editing.

Most of the Totalitarian architecture article, 64% by text, is written by MVBW. It was brought to a second AfD due to synthesis concerns. Half of the AfD participants proposed some sort of WP:TNT option, considering the article to contain synthesis. The statement that "totalitarian architecture" is an architectural style, as well as the thrust of the entire article advocating this viewpoint lacked consensus.

Following the AfD discussion, User:Paragon Deku rewritten the article on 24 May to rectify concerns expressed by the AfD participants.

Failing to achieve consensus (for "Style of architecture in totalitarian states" - see AfD, for "officially approved... international style" - see AfD and Talk:Totalitarian_architecture#Recent_changes_(WP:OR)), MVBW resorted to edit warring to restore their original claims from 14 July 2021 on 9 June 2023 and again, after being reverted by SnowFire, on 11-13 June 2023

This led to Paragon Deku expressing a feeling of burnout on 14 June 2023 after an evident failure of dispute resolution processes.

There were also multiple instances of edit warring to keep the preferred POV in the article prior to the MVBW's topic ban, for example:

1. 17 July 2021, 7 May 2023
2. 23 July 2021, 24 July 2021
3. 13 July 2021, 20 July 2021, 21 July 2021, 21 July 2021

I'm bringing up the broader pattern of the MVBW's editing for review as the MVBW's topic ban, in addition to apparently being disregarded by repeated attempts to test its boundaries, failed to improve the editing and talk page behaviour of MVBW in the wider EE topic area, and urging administrators to consider an appropriate enforcement action taking the "Impact on the Eastern Europe topic area (II)" remedy into account.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Special:Diff/1161414284

Discussion concerning My very best wishes

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by My very best wishes

Please accept my apology for topic ban violation on page Slava Ukraine. That was unintentional, and I realized it was a topic ban violation only 4 days after my edit. How did it happen?

1. When I came to edit this page on June 2, it existed in this version. It did not mention Poland anywhere and seemed to be a purely Ukrainian subject. Hence, I thought it was safe for me to edit.
2. Then, immediately after my edit, Marcelus makes this edit [3], with edit summary added more information of the usage of the greeting by OUN, OUN-B, UPA, and regular Ukrainians especially during the WW2. In this edit, Marcelus included new text that appears in the diff by ScottishFinnishRadish, i.e. “After the creation in the second half of 1942, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) took over the salute from the OUN-B, but dropped the fascist-like raising of the right arm above the head…” and so on.
3. I started making various changes in the new version by Marcelus, one of which was indeed a topic ban violation as appears in the diff by ScottishFinnishRadish. I did not realize it was a violation at the moment of making the edit because I perceived it per description in the edit summary by Marcelus, i.e. a material about Ukrainian nationalist organizations (OUN, etc.). That was my mistake.

• To avoid such missteps in the future, I will stay away not only of any pages/content related to Poland during WWI| or Jewish history, but also of any contributors (such as Marcelus) who are focused on editing in this area, because they include such content “on the fly” to many pages they edit (as in this case).

• Speaking about the broad ban from all EE subjects, I understand the concern by admins here (i.e. I might commit a similar topic ban violation in a future), but I am confident I will be able to avoid it. If you check my edit history, nearly all my edits during last several years were in EE area. If such wide topic ban will be enacted, I still will be able to participate in the project, but much less than I would participate otherwise.

• Copied over from User talk:My very best wishes by starship.paint (exalt)

My apology if my statement (copied from above) was not clear enough; and I am ready to answer additional questions if any. My very best wishes (talk) 18:09, 27 June 2023 (UTC) Copied from User talk:My very best wishes. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:24, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Marcelus

As the MVBW edition was about the changes I made to the article and the ongoing discussion between us, I feel obliged to add some context. I have a full understanding of why MVBW made this change in the belief that he was not breaking their ban. In the discussion the topic of "Poland and World War II" was almost completely absent, my edits and discussion were about the whole history of the greeting and its use primarily in the pre-war period. Mainly its use by Ukrainian nationalist organizations. Of course, probably MVBW should have been a bit more careful, but by engaging in an article at first glance completely unrelated to the topic of "Poland and World War II" they understandably lowered their guard more than they would have if they had edited something closer to that topic.Marcelus (talk) 22:22, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Adoring nanny

A rule like "stay away from topic X" seems like a difficult one to follow. I should know as I once screwed that up myself[8], though I also noticed my mistake more quickly than MVBW appears to have done. Avoiding articles about topic X is step one. But, as happened both in my case and the case of MVBW, there is the additional problem of avoiding it when topic X comes up in an article about something else. One establishes a mental filter, which is a step in the right direction. But having such a filter engaged at all times is more difficult. Adoring nanny (talk) 02:40, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Shibbolethink

I'd like to say something here, as someone uninvolved in the area who has interacted with MVBW elsewhere (always civil disagreement, but usually disagreement). I understand where admins below are coming from saying the TBAN should be broadened, but I think it would be excessive and punitive in effect. I think a block of 1 month is more than enough.

The holocaust in Poland area was a huge pile of flaming trash, and Wikipedia dropped the ball on many LTAs who received either no sanctions or too lenient ones. I followed the Arb case from the side lines and I completely agree with the recommendation to be very firm with future sanctions, to increase normal durations, etc. Wikipedia had a big issue here, and AC needed to make a strong statement on what our standards are. That impulse is absolutely justified, and usually well-served, but I think may be running a bit too far here.

I think User:Barkeep49 below made a good point that I want to underline: For many of the editors sanctioned in the case this would argue for more strict enforcement. Given the previous lack of blocks/enforcement against MVBW I think it's fair to say that a first offense of this topic ban not be treated as severely as a first time offense for other parties to the case. My understanding of the Arb recc for longer blocks was to stymie the impression that LTAs would be granted any further leniency in this situation. MVBW, on the other hand, is not really a "long-term abuser" in this area, not in the sense other parties were. I would have considered them a prime candidate to get their TBAN lifted in 6 months or a year, frankly. A 2 week or 1 month block is a sufficient "shot across the bow" to demonstrate the importance of following their WWII-Poland TBAN.

TBANning from the entirety of EE would be punitive, rather than preventative. Consider MVBW in total. Their edits in this area are most likely due to having eastern European heritage and some subject-matter knowledge. I understand the problems with their edits in the Holocaust subsection. But I have seen no evidence of such problems elsewhere. I see no evidence of malice or intent in this TBAN violation. Many of their edits in the area overall are of high quality. My impression is that if such a broadened "all EE" TBAN were to be enacted, it would substantially curb MVBW's ability to enjoy and contribute positively to the project, without preventing much, if any, disruption. That, to me, is the very definition of punishment for the sake of it, rather than to prevent problems.

I think the message from a 1 month block is perfectly clear: be more careful of your TBAN, MVBW. This is an early stage warning. It gets worse from here.— Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 16:20, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (editor)

Result concerning My very best wishes

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I've blocked for one week as this is an unambiguous topic ban violation. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:30, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Given the unambiguous nature of the violation and how recent the case was? That was very, very lenient. Courcelles (talk) 17:24, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I tend to fall on the lenient side when there is a discussion open. Now we have a week to form a consensus while they're already blocked.

  I checked their block log and saw that they didn't have any history of blocks, so although this was soon after the case I felt that starting the standard 1 week -> 1 month -> 3 month escalation was reasonable. I'm not tied down to that, though. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:32, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  This case has a special enforcement provision, though, allowing even initial blocks to be up to a year. And we’re basically under directive from Arbcom to drop the hammer in this topic area. It’s such a flagrant violation that I’d be ready to just topic ban from Eastern Europe entirely. Courcelles (talk) 18:01, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Sorry for the delay getting back to this, was pretty tied up over the weekend. The special enforcement provision says Administrators placing blocks should take into account an editor's overall conduct and Arbitration history and seriously consider increasing the duration of blocks. As far as I can tell, the only conduct of MVBW's that made the final decision was specifically about their conduct in relation to the case: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland#My very best wishes' conduct during the case, and they had only a single self-requested block.

  I'm leaning towards Valereee's thinking, and I think one week blocked and a warning that the next violation comes with an expanded topic ban and a much longer block is probably sufficient. I don't have an issue with bumping the block to 30 days and giving a final logged warning, either, as that seems closer to where the consensus rests, splitting the difference and ending up at Tamzin. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:27, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @Courcelles, Tamzin, Seraphimblade, and Valereee:, extend block to 30 days, logged warning that any further violations will be met with a 90 day block (triggering the Arbcom review provision) and a full EE topic ban? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:54, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I don't think there's a need to specify how long the next block might be, especially since not all EE violations would fall under the HJP review clause. But otherwise I support this. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 17:02, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Just to provide my thinking...the editor has apologized, stated they realize they made a mistake, and have come up with a plan to avoid making the same mistake again. I don't see the point in extending the block. But I can see I'm by far in the minority here, and I trust the judgement of others here. Valereee (talk) 17:18, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Given the time stamp of that diff, and MYBW only changing their tune about their topic ban violation after the first mentions of serious sanctions dropping here, I do not believe this to be sufficient. After getting topic banned directly by the committee last month? I’m not being particularly charitable here, but I am very unimpressed with how they responded initially. Courcelles (talk) 17:20, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  It's definitely not my first choice. If the consensus here is to go with that as a sort of compromise solution, I suppose I'm not categorically opposed, but I think we should be clear that we are not messing around here, so I would still at least as a first choice stand by what I first said. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 18:19, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  If we're at a 2–2–1 split here as to what is best in keeping with ArbCom's intent, should this just be referred to ARCA? -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 18:52, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I don't really think so. We've figured stuff like this out before, and the facts aren't terribly complex. If SFR's solution is at least somewhat okay with everyone, even if not ideal for them, then that might be what it ends up being. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 18:55, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I don't want to go to ARCA. I want us to figure this out. As Seraphimblade says, it's not complex. It's just that it's kind of new to us, but we really do need to figure out for ourselves how to deal with these. (Full disclosure: Also as someone who has been arguing for leniency, I don't think ARCA will lean in that direction.) Valereee (talk) 19:23, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Okay… spitballing here in terms of what we can do and maybe agree on. Make the block a fortnight and expand the topic ban to World War II and the history of Jews in Eastern Europe, rather than just Poland. That could be enough to unambiguously cordon off this area and draw a line that further misconduct will not be tolerated. (Essentially replacing Poland in the current topic ban with Eastern Europe). The message, either logged or just delivered here, is that the entire EE area goes, at a minimum, if MVBW violates this. Courcelles (talk) 19:38, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm okay with that. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 19:41, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Likewise. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 19:53, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• I also take ArbCom's remedies as a directive to tend strongly toward the upper end of reasonable sanctions. I would support a one-month block under HJP and, under ARBEE, either a TBAN from Eastern Europe or a logged only-warning, with instructions to future admins to TBAN without further warning if disruption recurs. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 21:55, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• If being directly topic banned by ArbCom isn't warning enough, I don't think a logged warning from us is going to do any better. Given that and the blatant nature of the violation, I would not support anything short of a topic ban from the Eastern Europe area entirely, and also wouldn't object to lengthening the block to a month. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 03:11, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I will note, though, that MVBW made some statements on their user talk page while blocked, and was blocked early in this process, so I've asked them if they want to make that statement here. While I do support sanctions at this time, and I don't see that as likely to change, I don't think we should sanction someone if they haven't had any opportunity to even tell their side of the story. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 22:50, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• I like to interpret these kinds of vios very leniently, especially in early days. Let's give this editor a little learning room. Valereee (talk) 02:04, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I think the committee was crystal clear about our jaundiced opinion of giving established users in this topic area "a little learning room". -- Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 14:35, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes, you really, unambiguously were. Courcelles (talk) 14:45, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree with what @Guerillero writes (and Courcelles agrees to) and if I'd thought of saying it like that I'd have replied to Valereee when I first saw it. I will also note, at least for me, Administrators placing blocks should take into account an editor's overall conduct matters. For many of the editors sanctioned in the case this would argue for more strict enforcement. Given the previous lack of blocks/enforcement against MVBW I think it's fair to say that a first offense of this topic ban not be treated as severely as a first time offense for other parties to the case. What that means is something I'm very happy to leave to the discretion of admins here. Barkeep49 (talk) 14:53, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]