Timeline for Custom close reason text for "homework"
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
14 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Jul 3, 2020 at 17:49 | comment | added | Buck Thorn Mod | I mix a lot of ideas into the discussion, I realize the thread gets cluttered. I think we should just pick a nice label for the blurbs, perhaps improve the documentation as necessary, and relax until the next round of argumentation :-) | |
| Jul 3, 2020 at 17:46 | comment | added | Buck Thorn Mod | I've seen the problem stated elsewhere and I fully agree with it: what prevents people from posting pictures of questions from their books? What we call the clause we invoke to stop a flood of such questions is not terribly important, but the language that describes the problem to the OP, once they become aware that the question is closed, is important. That's why I think the documentation is important, to make sure we close for the right reasons, and so visitors understand why we close (and how to reopen). The wording on the blurb is of course just a helpful reminder. | |
| Jul 3, 2020 at 17:41 | comment | added | Buck Thorn Mod | "Effort" is a bit loaded, I agree (but honest - what is easier than copying a problem verbatim). However it is a question not just of helping the OP (which is the basis for all close options, a suggestion that the OP improve a post), but of the OP helping us answer the question (the repair part). The "effort" clause would afaik be visible to the reviewer, not to the OP. Ultimately it is a question of personal judgement and of making tools available to the reviewer to improve the site and make things easier (less effort for us :-). | |
| Jul 2, 2020 at 17:06 | comment | added | Martin - マーチン Mod | @Buck I like to view the 'Homework Close Reason' as a tool to help the OP improve their question. Therefore I think it is most necessary for questions of the type 'you did not explain your problem sufficiently', even though the 'Needs Clarity Reason' could very well be used. If we take the prior out of the equation, then we wouldn't need a custom reason imo. I remain of the opinion, that effort is the worst criterion to close a question. But I do not wish to digress into this discussion here any further as it is neither the right place, nor the right time. | |
| Jul 1, 2020 at 18:26 | comment | added | Buck Thorn Mod | The "effort" clause addresses another point: the website is not supposed to be a free homework solution service. The request for "effort" is arguably in the best interests of the OP and their schools and reduces the likelihood of spamming with nonsense questions. By placing greater responsibility on the OP it also reduces effort expended searching for duplicates. | |
| Jul 1, 2020 at 18:15 | comment | added | Buck Thorn Mod | The issue of interacting with the OP is problematic since that is not supposed to be the point of SE, even while it can be one of the more fun aspects. If you employ somewhat mercenary thinking, the utility of a post+answers boils down to how many people are helped which tends to scale with number of views and votes. If you are less mercenary, each question is valuable independently of votes/views. From what I recall there is a meta post on SO by Jeff Atwood that basically suggests all possible variations on a question are ok, since they can help different people. I agree, within reason. | |
| Jul 1, 2020 at 18:13 | comment | added | Buck Thorn Mod | Many "homework" questions such as the example I present in my answer can also be closed in principle using the "needs details or clarity" option. This is the case where the OP mixes up concepts resulting in a confused analysis. The question then lacks clarity. Simply closing a question does not help the OP much since the message will not tell the person where they are confused. But that is not an issue with closing, it is about interaction with the OP as you suggest. | |
| Jul 1, 2020 at 17:57 | comment | added | Buck Thorn Mod | I find the philosophical angle useful and important although a bit off-topic since it becomes a question of "what questions are appropriate for chem SE" rather than the blurbs orthocresol is proposing (which depend on one of the close reasons: homework). I tried to avoid addressing that point."You did not explain your problem sufficiently" sounds very much like it could be handled by one of the other close options (insufficient detail or lack of focus). Also, "why do you want to know" seems ambiguous and of minor importance. They may answer, "because I want an A in chemistry". Ok, what then? | |
| Jul 1, 2020 at 16:00 | comment | added | Karsten Mod | @orthocresol The closing community has a small core. I would like to see the stats one day. I think overall, they are doing a phenomenal job, so there is no reason to change which type of questions are closed. It is more about closing them with clear guidance and without turning people off who have the potential to improve their current question and ask good questions in the future. | |
| Jul 1, 2020 at 15:55 | comment | added | Karsten Mod | @orthocresol I think we all have some O and M in us. Sometimes, it's clear that the problem is more in the head of the OP, sometimes it the way the question is written. In any case, I think the OP has to engage with their own question, and communicate that. Note that in the draft prompt, the word "you" or "your" or "yourself" appears six times: "Please edit your question to improve your problem statement. Make sure you tell us why you want to answer this question, and what prevents you from answering it yourself". I think that makes clear we want more effort from the OP without using the term. | |
| Jul 1, 2020 at 15:07 | comment | added | orthocresol | I do like your proposals, though. I think that (ultimately) they should also be backed up with more detailed guidance as well, much like how the current text links to the homework post. | |
| Jul 1, 2020 at 14:54 | comment | added | orthocresol | My first question is what 'M' and 'O' stand for. :-) I personally lean pretty far towards M, and have long thought that "effort" is a bad criterion. However, my personal opinion has not mattered for many years, especially since I rarely vote to close. My impression has long been that the community votes to close based on O-type criteria, and the text I picked is just trying to reflect that. | |
| Jul 1, 2020 at 13:30 | comment | added | Karsten Mod | I previously made a suggestion of relabeling homework questions as "incomplete", but I think this is more focused. chemistry.meta.stackexchange.com/a/4407 | |
| Jul 1, 2020 at 13:10 | history | answered | KarstenMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |