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Many times, I get confused about when to cast a vote to close a question as Needs more Focus or Needs details or clarity when the OP has not provided any information on what they have actually tried and where they got stuck at, assuming the OP has provided a descriptive title, about posts like How can I create a procedurally stained wall material? and How would I create the texture and bumpy moss covered trees in this image? and Need help for tube like surface in geo-nodes.

It's understandable that some users are newcomers and genuinely don't know where to start. However, how can we distinguish between a user who genuinely needs guidance and one who hasn't made any effort to research or provided anything that they have tried?

I noticed that sometimes users cast their vote to close the question without first asking for more information. Is there a standard procedure we should follow? Should we wait (how many hours?) for additional details before voting to close, or is it acceptable to cast a close vote and simultaneously request more information?

I'm a bit confused about how to handle these situations. Sometimes, these questions get immediately closed for needing more focus, but other times, they receive answers from experienced users willing to go the extra mile to recreate exactly what the OP asked for, even if it was a huge task more suited for a freelancer.

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    $\begingroup$ I haven't got to this yet, only because I'm finding it hard to answer :) $\endgroup$
    – Robin Betts Mod
    Commented May 30 at 17:00
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    $\begingroup$ Hey @RobinBetts thanks for your attention. No worries no rush! It's also okay if I don't get an answer either haha :) $\endgroup$
    – Harry McKenzie Mod
    Commented May 30 at 17:14
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    $\begingroup$ Hi, Harry, Welcome to mod-world! I've put a comment under Duarte's post. BTW, my personal stance, (given that our sole function is to be helpful) is to try always to give posts the benefit of the doubt: 'needs guidance', unless truly egregious. I just wish the system made it easier to return to previously commented posts. $\endgroup$
    – Robin Betts Mod
    Commented Jun 7 at 8:09

2 Answers 2

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This is a good question, and one that is hard to answer concisely, among other reasons because I don't think there is one true objective answer to it all, but I'll try my best to tackle the issue.

I'll open my answer by highlighting the fact that closing a question is a democratic process that is subject to voting by the community. Why is this important?

I think it hints at the fact that evaluating the quality of a post is to a certain degree subjective and always subject to a some amount of opinion.

Some might think a question is too broad, some might think it needs more information, while others may be more concerned that it is too localized. Who is right? Everyone and no one.

A post may suffer from any number of those issues simultaneously some more apparent to a group of users, some to others; and yet even when the question indeed objective and clear some users may vote it for it being too broad. And on comes one of those highly experienced users and post an incredibly simple and effective solution to a traditionally complex and long winded task, or maybe he actually bothers to post a long and thorough answer to an unfairly broad topic.

What I mean is, some times even evaluating something as apparently objective as the "ontopicness" of a post may be down to individual users perception or even level expertise. What one may see as too broad or vague, may be explicit or simple to others.

Summarizing, the reasons for voting to close aren't always necessarily objective or perceived equally by everyone. While we may not always pinpoint a single exact reason for closing, I think we as a community have become quite good in general at spotting troublesome posts, even if we can't quite agree on a consensus.

I have yet to find an unfairly closed question by the community, even if I don't entirely agree with the reason. That being said, we might be able to establish some guidelines to help us be more consistent.

When to cast a vote to close a question as Needs more Focus or Needs details or clarity?

  • Needs More Clarity - When there is not enough information to identify the issue, when the particular constraints of the user are not well exposed, or when the issue is clear, but there is not enough information to identify an adequate solution.
  • Needs More Focus - The question is clear and concise, but there are multiple different issues that need to be tackled differently and all added together wouldn't easily fit in a single answer; or the issue is too broad that an adequate answer would be too long or require a "tutorial".

New users often miscalculate or underestimate the complexity of certain tasks which leads to often being unaware of how broad a topic may be.

Should we wait (how many hours?) for additional details before voting to close, or is it acceptable to cast a close vote and simultaneously request more information?

One long standing pet peeve of mine has been the wording Stack Exchange sites use when closing a question. The word "closing" has a very "final" and immutable weight to it. A more adequate term for me would be something less binding like "on hold" or "on wait", that would transmit the owner that is a temporary state that can be reversed once the required actions are taken.

Closing questions as it stands can seem hostile and scare away new users, that is even more pressing for moderators, which lose the ability to "vote to close" questions. As a moderator your vote is binding, and the question is closed immediately, placing a lot more weight on our decision.

That being said it should not be perceived as irreversible or a bad thing in itself, and I don't think we should ever refrain or withhold voting to close a post that deserves it. The act of closing in itself is not final, leaving a comment is optional, and the builtin close messages for all the various close reasons are designed to leave clear instructions for the post owner on how to proceed so it can be reopened.

Users are also expected to be around for a while after posting their questions for any followups deemed necessary (clarification, edits etc.), so any actual waiting should ideally be kept to a minimum. If they take no immediate action on any of the requests we can safely close the question.

If one is feeling particularly helpful and wants to put in the extra effort to leave an additional bespoke message, then we totally encourage it, especially if it is a new user, or the question was closed without any prior comments or requests for improvement. It is certainly encouraged, but not at all mandatory, I often, but not always try to do it myself, but that takes time, and is a luxury one can't always afford.

However, how can we distinguish between a user who genuinely needs guidance and one who hasn't made any effort to research or provided anything that they have tried?

I like reminding myself from time to time that the ultimate goal of this site is building an easy to consult long term database of high quality searchable content, that above all else should help future visitors find valuable answers for their issues, rather that help the single individual that posted it.

With that in mind, I think the amount of investment one should put into a single post, should be proportional to the original quality of the post itself.

If it is well written, illustrated and shows a minimum of effort, the odds that asking for further details will be well met are higher. Otherwise users very often abandon their posts even when they get actual answers, let alone when met with downvotes, close votes or even simple requests for clarification.

My second favorite and most reliable metric for when and if to help a user (leave a response, ask for clarification, engage a comments, etc.) is how responsive a user has been to received input. If a user responds to comments, shows interaction or ideally even edits his post in response to input, it shows he is invested in getting help, that should in return encourage us as visitors to invest more in that post.

Has Gorgious very well points out in his answer all interactions collectively take considerable amounts of time and effort from users, especially if one considers the large volume of posts that come into our site daily. Hand holding every single one of them is impossible at this scale, and our format is simply not designed for that type of back and forth.

The harsh truth for me is that all the knowledge and effort from the many brilliant and dedicated members of our community is a very precious and scarce commodity, especially when considering it is altruistically given away for free for the benefit of any visitor.

The final decision of how to use ones time and energy is always to each users discretion, but I'd consider all that manpower squandered if spent solely coaxing information from low quality posts, rather than invested in writing actual useful answers elsewhere that could eventually help countless other visitors down the line.

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    $\begingroup$ Thank you for your detailed and insightful response; it has clarified many aspects of the voting and closing process for me! $\endgroup$
    – Harry McKenzie Mod
    Commented May 31 at 8:03
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    $\begingroup$ Thanks, Duarte, for the work you've put into this, much appreciated. Part of the reason I've held off is to listen to the opinion of more senior mods. I want to distinguish user and mod close-votes. In a perfect world, as a mod, I would want to avoid the immediate super-vote, be able to comment, awaiting clarification/improvement, and other community votes, then 'Skip'. Then I want the post to reappear in my queue so I can re-assess after OP has had a chance to respond. By my reading of Meta, this doesn't happen.. $\endgroup$
    – Robin Betts Mod
    Commented Jun 7 at 7:51
  • $\begingroup$ Again, reading Meta, there seems to be a way to return to our review histories, so we can find our own skipped reviews? But I can't find it. $\endgroup$
    – Robin Betts Mod
    Commented Jun 7 at 8:11
  • $\begingroup$ @RobinBetts Thanks for chiming in. Indeed some sort of "post reminders" or "snooze" button are high on my wish list as well, but sadly nowhere in sight. The closest thing I've found to a review history is the "All Actions" section of you user profile. There is a queue of comments, edits and reviews i.sstatic.net/I4rpx9Wk.png $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 7 at 9:15
  • $\begingroup$ @RobinBetts Another option that occurred to me is, since we now have a "Saves" system that allows saving arbitrary posts into custom user categories, one could potentially set up manual categories for posts we'd like to revisit for one reason or another, and save them there for later followups. This does requires some more manual management though $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 7 at 9:23
  • $\begingroup$ @Duarte Thanks. I'll check it out. Another option (unlikely to happen) .. get rid of the super-vote, and make the mod:'close' action distinct from mod-as-user:'vote close'. More democratic, IMO. $\endgroup$
    – Robin Betts Mod
    Commented Jun 7 at 9:36
  • $\begingroup$ @RobinBetts thank you for your input. Yes I used to be able to vote but now I tend to "skip" the "close" reviews for the same reasons, it would be nice if there was an option to vote or super-vote. Duarte good suggestion with the save question, I will use that for the "about-to-close" questions :D $\endgroup$
    – Harry McKenzie Mod
    Commented Jun 7 at 16:23
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    $\begingroup$ "closing a question is a democratic process" - it usually looks like this: 4 people vote on closing a question, then Duarte comes in and closes the question. The question has now been closed: by those 4 people and Duarte, who could also close it single-handedly. 😆 I'm not complaining just find it funny and it happens very often ( most of the time, I think). Other than that I agree fully and strongly and this post might become my favorite reference to link to, whenever I see people on the Internet complain on SE/SO posts being closed unfairly. $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 9 at 16:28
  • $\begingroup$ @MarkusvonBroady indeed, that tends to happen a lot around these parts 😆 Our smaller site suffers from lack of critical mass, we often don't have enough users participating in community driven moderation that a decision can be reached without solely from voting, which sadly detracts from the democratic process and from the "self moderating" model. We need more Blenderhaeads around here. Thanks for the kind words $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 9 at 19:22
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I'll go and suggest an answer that seems to satisfy my gut feeling about the specific examples you mentioned.

I try to calculate, what are the chances of this post appearing in a random person's search engine results in 3 years when they encounter a similar problem, and what are the chances it solves said problem ? If it's zero, then the question should be closed immediately, if it's more than zero, then more experienced users have a few solutions, but in the end it really depends on the person asking the question and the voting power of the userbase. Here's a list going from the easiest solution to the most tiresome solution :

  • Ignore : No harm, no foul. If this question is genuinely unsalvageable, you can always choose to let it sink into the second page and rot away until it gets garbage collected in a few years and deleted.
  • Vote up / down : There are more voters than commenters and answerers, so if a question is genuinely interesting even if not totally in line with the site guidelines, I think we should encourage potential answers by up-voting it and potentially making it appear in the hot network panel, which in general grants a bunch of "free" upvotes. And you can vote down if you want to manifest that you don't like this question for whatever reason. This will upset newcomers.
  • Vote to close : This may prompt the asker to re-think their question. In my experience this rarely works though, because most first time users get discouraged and upset because their question was closed, or voted to be closed, although they have ways to re-open them.
  • Comment asking for more information : This solution is more friendly towards first time users but can lead to useless back-and-forth because the user thinks we can solve their problem with a very limited amount of information. This is my preferred way to solve the problem but unfortunately it's very hit and miss. Sometimes the user will provide more information, sometimes they will get aggravated. It seems more experienced users have pre-canned comments that they copy/paste depending on the specific issues of each question.
  • Edit the title or body of the question : Sometimes it will upset askers because they feel like we're taking power from them when usually the intention is instead to draw more attention to their problem by making it more attractive to the experienced users or make it more search-engine friendly. IMO if someone rollbacks their poorly worded question, don't waste any more energy and let it sink into the second page / close it.
  • Answer the question : This is the most energy consuming solution. You run the risk of wasting your time because you didn't understand the user's question. Sometimes you did understand what they meant when others didn't and you genuinely help the user, but it's again very hit and miss. If you choose to answer a question that was poorly worded, or that missed on some vocabulary, I suggest also editing the question to make it more useful. But again, you might do all of that for nothing. And don't be upset if you don't get any upvotes ! Maybe someone having the same problem in 3 years will upvote your answer ;) The top reputation earners list is filled by people getting rep for several years old posts. Oh, and you encourage people to ask poorly worded questions, which doesn't bring up the global value of this site.
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  • $\begingroup$ your suggestions on how to respond based on the potential long-term usefulness of a question are very insightful thank you so much! And you make a very good point with that last sentence XD $\endgroup$
    – Harry McKenzie Mod
    Commented May 31 at 8:05
  • $\begingroup$ "And you can vote down if you want to manifest that you don't like this question for whatever reason. This will upset newcomers." - this is not true. If you vote down, someone will feel bad for the OP and vote up (otherwise he wouldn't vote up) back to 0. This means that by voting down, you're indirectly giving 8 rep to the OP, well on average maybe around 7 rep considering those nonredeemable questions that even the softest users won't upvote :D $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 9 at 16:45
  • $\begingroup$ As for your last point - I like and apply Cunninghams' Law - a quick, wrong answer to clearly show the OP why more clarity is needed in his question $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 9 at 16:45
  • $\begingroup$ @MarkusvonBroady Hehe two things can be true at the same time, OP can be upset and other users, too. I personnaly tend to prefer the solution that minimizes the global amount of entropy :p $\endgroup$
    – Gorgious
    Commented Jun 9 at 17:02

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