Timeline for How to by-pass bioethics for a trivial bio-experiment?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
17 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Feb 10, 2019 at 17:21 | comment | added | WDC | @JamesMartin Well compared to your comment here I believe my experimental results much more. But you did remind me of the possibility that the sample blood might be wrong, though the possibility is small. | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 17:11 | comment | added | James Martin | @WDC - Don't take my word on it. Google on "mouse red blood cell size". | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 17:06 | comment | added | David Richerby | @JamesMartin I'd join your protest but, honestly, I don't have the backbone... | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 16:37 | comment | added | WDC | @JamesMartin Weird. I am not from bio, but I did witness myself that red blood cells (donut shaped; similar to what I have seen from humans') from mice are (much) smaller than those from mine. Maybe I need to redo the experiment. Thanks for the info. | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 16:33 | comment | added | James Martin | @WDC - Then I assume you're talking about thrombocytes rather than erythrocytes, right? If not, something very strange is going on. As I stated, erythrocytes (RBCs, aka red blood corpuscles) are about 6 to 8 microns regardless of species. | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 16:23 | comment | added | WDC | @JamesMartin Unfortunately not. Mice blood cells are 4x smaller than humans'. I have real data and I am not exaggerating. | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 15:43 | comment | added | James Martin | @WDC - "we have tried mice blood but the cells are too small" - What? Mouse and human RBCs are almost exactly the same size, and in general erythrocytes are pretty much the same size in all species. Apparently I'm missing something. | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 11:42 | comment | added | The_Sympathizer | Could another possible alternative be to use a pre-prepared specimen, such as those which can be ordered from suppliers? If one gets that then one doesn't need to collect and process any blood at all; all the handling and vetting has already been done for you. I typically see these sold for learning sets. | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 11:39 | comment | added | The_Sympathizer | @WDC Ah, so you need a picture taken with your own microscopes, then. | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 11:37 | comment | added | WDC | @The_Sympathizer the microscopy is special; our contribution includes both hardware and software contributions. So I cannot use other data. | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 11:36 | comment | added | The_Sympathizer | @WDC : Why would that prevent you from using a publicly-available image of blood cells? Is there something specific in the images you'd need control over? | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 8:30 | comment | added | WDC | Thanks for the suggestion. Actually we have tried mice blood but the cells are too small to be seen (beyond our microscopy & algorithm capabilities). And blood cells are preferable because the donut shape is well known and easy for one argument of the paper. Also, I am not doing machine learning and the hardware is special, so I cannot use public datasets. | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 1:20 | comment | added | James Martin | @cag51 - Sheer vertabratism at its worst. We should form a committee to protest. | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 1:17 | comment | added | cag51♦ | Though I am no expert on animal testing, I think using a dog as you describe would lead to pretty much exactly the same type of problem that OP has now -- it seems trivial, but there are a ton of rules. Even filling out a survey requires an IRB, for reasons I've never accepted. But invertebrate blood might work, there are ~no rules on invertebrates. | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 1:13 | comment | added | James Martin | @cag51 - My thought was that if an animal such as a dog were having blood drawn for testing, a small amount might be diverted to the OP, and the result might (or, of course, might not) be exempt from "experimental" protocols. After all, no experiments are being done on the dog. | |
| Feb 10, 2019 at 1:10 | comment | added | cag51♦ | +1...There are in fact onerous protocols for experimentation on vertebrate animals, but invertebrates are pretty much fair game. I'd also be surprised if there weren't open source databases of images of animal or human blood...a quick search reveals one on Kaggle, though no idea if that would be suitable for OP's needs | |
| Feb 9, 2019 at 21:51 | history | answered | James Martin | CC BY-SA 4.0 |