Porn Laws in English
Sep 19th, 2008, in News, by Guest Writer
A full translation into English of the somewhat controversial 2008 Indonesian pornography laws.
I hope to post the entire Pornography Law in English for all non fluent Indonesian speaker to read and discuss in informed manner.
Planned Legislature of Republik Indonesia Regarding Pornography
Chapter 1:
Definitions:
1. Pornography [sic shorthand ‘Porn’ from now on] is sexual material that is made by humans by form of picture, sketch, illustration, photo, writings, vocalizations, sounds, moving picture, animations, cartoon, rhymes/poems/prose/verse, lewd sexual gestures (straddling, blowing kisses, miming oral sex), eurythmics or lewdness deliberately disguised as double entrendre communications [simulated sexual acts] – communicated or transmitted via media communications and/or public shows/exhibits/performances [implied: live] that arouses sexual propensities/desires/longings [implied: undesirable] and/or contravenes community ethics/decency/ morality [one word: kesusiliaan].
2. Porn services are defined as the genus of porn services prepare for people, peoples or corporations/business entities that show/exhibit/preview/display directly, via cable television, terrestrial tv, radio, telephone, Internet, and other communications along with written/published documentations as newspapers, magazines and other printed materials.
3. Every person is defined herein as a person, people or corporations that are subordinate to the law, as embodied by law as well as or in spite of not being represented by law [sic: every human basically- foreign or not].
4. Children are defined herein as those aged below 18 years of age.
5. Government or State is defined as the Central Government as lead by President of Republik Indonesia as held by the National Government of Republik Indonesia as defined by Common Law/regulations of Constitution 1945.
6. Regional Government is defined as the Governor, District Chief, or Mayor and the Regional Government apparatus and complex.
SECTION 2:Basis and Prohibitions
The Foundation of Pornography Regulations is based on the God the Supreme Almighty, admiration and respect of the dignity and worth of humans, diversity, the Rule of Law, non-discrimination and protection of Citizens/Civilians of the State [sic: applies to non Citizens as well]
Section 3
Purpose of Porn Rules:
To shape, protect and maintain Social Order of the Community ad Community Ethics, Supremacy of Privacy, the priceless value of God, and admiration and respect of the dignity and worth of humans
b. To cultivate and instruct a moral and ethic Community
c. Construct by Necessity Laws for the Protections of the Civilian from Pornography, most especially Children and Women
and
d.
Guard against porn and [sic consequent] commercialization of sex within the Community
Chapter 2: Prohibitions
Section 4:1
Every person is forbidden to manufacture, fabricate, commercial quantity duplicate, reduplicate, spread about/distribute, broadcast, importation, exportation, make for sale, trade in [sic: sell/buy product], lease/rent, prepare/make available or store/lay-away PORN which has the following
traits:
e- coital acts, foreplay and sexual diversions pertaining to coitus [sic simulated sexual acts term is termasuk persenggamaan yg menyimpang- perhaps reader has better transliteration]
f- sexual violence
g- masturbation or onanism
h- nudity or illusions/allusions to nudity
i genitalia
2: Every person is forbidden to set aside/prepare porn which:
a- depicts explicit nudity or illusions of nudity
b- depicts explicit genitalia
c- exploitational or pedantic allusions to sexual activities
d make or advertise in sense of commercialized publications in spite of no
relation to sex (sic: racy adverts/ using “sex sells”)
Section 5:
Every person is forbidden to borrow, or “pick fruit” [sic: select] as per Sec 4, subsec 1
Section 6:
Every person is forbidden to [sic implication of public act of] listening, watching/viewing, utilising/exploiting/employing, possessing, or store away/have in storage [sic has an ambiguous yet somewhat implied connotation of ‘save’ as per computer systems jargon] Porn as defined by 4:1,
EXCEPT from those bestowed with Authority or Regulations.
Section 7:
Every Person is Forbidden to ease or facilitate deeds as defined/pertaining to 4
Section 8
Every Person is Forbidden to be an object or model be an object of Porn
Section 9
Every Person is Forbidden to make another person an object or model be an object of Porn
Section 10:
Every person is forbidden to view [sic implication publicly or in public place] personally or exhibit/perform in the general public nude depictions, exploitations of sex, coital acts, or other that alludes to Porn [sic as per definition of Section 4].
Section 11:
Every person is forbidden to engage/involve/invoke/entangle children in activities or objects pertaining to that as defined by any single one or combination of Sections 4-6, 8-10.
Section 12:
Every person is forbidden to urge/invite, persuade/trick/cheat, employ/utilize, conspire/connive in implicating, misuse, domineer or coerce or exert children into Porn or Porn related products
13
The generation of, distribution, and utilization of Porn which is not pertaining or defined as per 4:1, has obligations within within the scope, responsibilities and subject of these same regulations
The generation of, distribution, and utilization of above mentioned Porn within in the same manner as 13:1 Must be employed only in specific times and places.
14:
The generation of, distribution, and utilization of sexual materials is of specific
importance and within the valued possession of:
a Fine arts and culture
b Traditional culture
c traditional ritual
15:
Determination of the conditions and importance and manner of permission for the generation of, distribution, and utilization for the purposes and importance of upbringing and education and health services and implementation stipulations of 13 shall be governed by the State/Government Regulations [sic to be announced separately]
Chapter 3: Protection of Children
16:
Every [sic adult] person has a [sic legal] responsibility and obligation to safeguard children from Porn and guard against children accessing Porn information.
17:
1 Government, Social Institutions, Educational Institutions, Religious Institutions, families and/ or the Community has the [sic legal] obligation of [personal] subordination, alignment and social dignification , physical health and mental health of children victims or subject/performer of Porn.
Determination concerning subordination, alignment and social dignification of physical and mental health is as per the aims of Section 1 in line with the aims of [these] Government Regulations
Chapter 4 Precautions:
Sub divisional Unity within Government Apparatus
18: The Government and Regional Government is obligated to take necessary precautions against the generation of, distribution of ad utilization of Porn.
19
For Execution of Precautions related to Section 18, the Government has the Power to:
a
Execute dissolution of the network of distribution of Porn products or Porn services via employment of Blocking Internet access to Porn.
b
Execute [sic all means of] surveillance/monitoring in the course of surveying generation of, distribution of, and utilization of Porn.
c
Execute co-operative and coordination with all relevant parties, including those under he Law despite being not within the nation, in the obligation of prosecuting generation of, distribution of, and utilization of Porn.
20
For execution of efforts pertaining to Sec 18, The Regional Government is obligated to:
a
Execute dissolution of the network of distribution of Porn products or Porn services via employment of Blocking Internet access to Porn within that subregion yet smaller than Province.
b
Execute [sic all means of] surveillance/monitoring in the course of surveying generation of, distribution of, and utilization of Porn within that subregion yet smaller than Province.
c
Execute co-operative and coordination with all relevant parties, including those under he Law despite being not within the nation, in the obligation of prosecuting generation of, distribution of, and utilization of Porn within that subregion yet smaller than Province.
d
Fostering communication, information and educational systems within the framework o precautionary action against porn within that subregion yet smaller than Province.
21
Actions Concerning the Community
The Community has a role to play within the scope of the precautionary execution measures concerning generation of, distribution of, and utilization of Porn
22
Actions Concerning the Community as pertaining to Section 21, in the execution of in the style of:
a
Report Infringements or violations of these Regulations
b
execution of Suitor Liaisons to the Court
c
Execution of the “socialisation” [social dissemination] of rules, regulations which regulate Porn
d
execute constructions of behalf f the Commubntiy that warn of the dangers and impact of Porn
22:2
Clarification of the definition of 22:1, letters a and b are to be in accordance with the responsibility and appropriate [behaviours/actions] context of Rules and Regulations
23
Community which report infractions as pertaining to 22:1 have the right to Protection on the basis of rules and regulations.
Chap 5:
Details Police Investigations, prosecution, interrogation, examination and jurisdiction/jurisprudence.
24
Investigate, Prosecute and Cross-Examinations of the Court Infraction of Porn on the Basis of Criminal Law aside from instances are within these Regulations
25
Alongside tools of Evidence as proscribed by these Regulations, the entrance of other tools of evidence used in criminal acts includes, but is not limited to:
a
objects which are loaded with writings or pictures; unpublished or unpublished, electronic goods, optics or other data storage forms
b
data on file within other Internet communication networks or conduits
26:
For the importance of police investigation , investigations have the power to access, inspect and manufacture copies of electronic data which is within networks of computer files, INTERNET networks, optical media, or other data storage forms
2:
For the importance of police investigation, data owners, data storers/savers, or service providers are obligated to hand over and or open electronic data requested by the investigation
3
Data owners, data storers/savers or service providers after handing over or opening electronic data as pertaining to 2 have the right to receipt of surrender or official report from the commencement from Investigative Officer
27
Investigative Officer concerning official report as pertaining to 26 and concerning data owners, data stoers or data service providers at the place data mentioned was obtained.
28
Electronic data which is implicated with current investigations bundled in evidential documents
Electronic data which is implicated with current investigations destroyed or erased
Investigate, public petitioner, and competent authorities from all levels within the process within the jurisdiction has obligation of secrecy with seriousness above fervency , in spite of electronic data information which destroyed or erased.
Chap 6:
1. Destruction of offending materials with the object Porn from general petitioner
2. Destruction of Porn as pertaining to 1 with Official Report must than name,
a type and total amount which to be destroyed
b day date, month and year of destruction
and
c explanation of owner or holder of goods destroyed
Chap 7: Punishments for Offenses
30.
All people which manufacture, fabricate, commercial quantity duplicate, reduplicate, spread about/distribute, broadcast, importation, exportation, make for sale, trade in [sic: sell/buy product], lease/rent, prepare/make available or store/lay-away Convicted under Criminal Law shall be punished by prison term of minimum 1 year no greater than 12 years or fine of minimum Rp 500 million and not exceeding Rp 6000 million.
31.
All people setting aside/making available [menyediakan means to make something or prepare something in advance- usually for food] Porn as defined by 4:2 convicted under Criminal Law shall be shall be punished by prison term of minimum5 months and maximum 6 years or fine minimum Rp 250 million to maximum Rp 3000 million.
32.
Every person which loans or or selects Porn as defined by 5 convicted under Criminal Law shall be punished by prison term of maximum 4 years or fine not exceeding Rp 2000 million.
33.
Every person which sounds out, exhibits, exploiting, utilizing, in possessions of or kept in storage Porn as defined by 6 convicted under Criminal Law shall be shall be punished by prison term of maximum 4 years or fine not exceeding Rp 2000 million.
34
Every person which funds or facilitates Products as defined by 7 convicted under Criminal Law shall be shall be punished by prison term of minimum 2 years and maximum of 15 or fine of minimum Rp 100 million and maximum Rp 7500 million .
35
Every person with intention or with agreement of self or model which has within its’ capacity Porn as defined by 8 convicted under Criminal Law shall be shall be punished by prison term of maximum 10 years or fine not exceeding Rp 5000 million.
36
Every person whom causes another person to be the object or model of Porn as defined by 9 convicted under Criminal Law shall be shall be punished by prison term of minimum 1 year and maximum 12 years or fine minimum Rp 500 million and not exceeding Rp 6000 million.
37.
Every person which exhibits themselves or others in performance or the general public which is nude picture, exploitation of sex, coital acts or Porn as defined by 10 convicted under Criminal Law shall be shall be punished by prison term of maximum 10 years or fine not exceeding Rp 5000 million.
38
Every person who engages or entangles children in activities or as object as defined by 11 convicted under criminal law shall be imprisoned as intended by 30, 31, 32, 33, 35, 36 and 37 with addition of 1/3 maximum term added for those posing a threat to Law
39
Every person who invites, persuades, tricks, cheats, exploits, connives, misapplies authority or dominance or coerces children into Porn or elements of Porn defined by 12 convicted under Criminal Law shall be punished by prison term of minimum 6 months and maximum 6 years or fine minimum Rp 250 million and not exceeding Rp 3000 million.
40.
1
In the case of Criminal Pornographic Acts in the name or by the name of a Corporation, Indictments and Decrees shall be made concerning the Corporation, Board, Management and/or Managers.
2
In Criminal Acts of Porn, concerning Corporations when Criminal Acts concerning People in the grounds of related work in spite of the grounds of unrelated work steps taken in the domain mentioned,
3
In the case of Criminal Prosecution concerning a certain Corporations, Corporation is represented by the Board
4
The Board/Management representing the interests of Corporations as defined by 3 have the right to representation by others.
5.
The Judge with Jurisdiction over Management in order that Corporations appear alone of Regulations and necessity of governance over Management shall appear alongside the Regulations.
Chapter 8 closing comments
42
From the Date of the Regulations taking effect, within one month every person owning or possessing porn as defined by 4:1 to destroy it themselves or surrender it to Officials/representatives
43
From the date of Regulations taking Effect, all rules and regulations tied t everyone with respect to Criminal Pornography Laws predating this, are not in Conflict
44
These regulations start immediately approved
Alongside all people knowing, authorities enacting these Regulations with appointment of State of Republic Indonesia
Clarifications
Sec 4:1-
a
coitus or sexual activities or those simulated such as those not expressly covered also include such sexual activities involving corpses, animals, oral & anal sex and lesbian &homosexual sex
4b:
Sexual violence including that [real or simulated] coitus involving beatings, dominance, humiliation, especially lewd and distasteful acts, coercion or rape
d
appearance or reference to bodies with nudity, for the sake of a glimpse (in other words no quick flashes of nudity or see-through garments in relation to exploitation f said imagery for no artistic, adat or ritual purposes)
5:
selecting is also defined as storage or moving files from information and communication technology systems
6
Those authorized by regulations include:
film censors, broadcasting supervisors/commissioners, legal entities, health workers, sex therapy workers and educational workers. Educators include librarians, lab technicians/workers and all possible connotations of educators.
10:
Mempernontonkan diri is defined being a viewer with self initiative or the initiative of others with the express desire and agreement of oneself.
16:
Cases concerning Child Porn may be referred to Child Protective measures as outlined in Child Protection regulation 2003: Regulation 23
19
Internet block is defined as blocking porn tools or porn services
20 as above
activities or objects pertaining to that as defined by any single one or combination of Sections 4-6, 8-10.
71 Comments on “Porn Laws in English”
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maju says:
What are they trying to expect the result here? Rape decrease? Of course this wont works, even in the country where the women are closed by their clothes, rape still many occurs, even the frequent are among the top
Besides, I think sexual drive is not occurring because we see the open of woman’s body, it more occurs because the relative openness compared to environment. For example, if we are sitting in a class while study and suddenly there is a pretty girl with swim suit, we surely get aroused by it, but what happened if we are in a beach where all girls wearing bikinis, we feel nothing, because it’s common. Just imagine you have lived for several months in a place where all women use very close clothes and you can’t see anything, and suddenly you see a woman with only short pant and you can see her thigh, hair and neck, I bet we would be aroused by the view, it will be seen relatively very beautiful
I think sexual desires will increase much if we are told to use closed clothes. So we’ll see every women in the street use closed clothes and what happened next is, if we see on TV and see west movies, then as relatively it will just like we see a blue films now. Rapes happen even more. I know my English very poor but I hope that all readers can understand my theory here that sexual desires aroused because of relativity.
And then we will be stupider, because this worldwide have a lot of different culture, and what we do here is to make our morality built based on rules, not consciousness. We have to let outside culture come free and we are the one who have to filter the good ones, which even make our belief and morality stronger. Go INDONESIA. MERDEKA!
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Yalun says:
Your English is just OK.
I just wish those people in DPR could think like Maju. Indonesia may be a lot better. -
andrey says:
Something you will not understand, reducing rape etc are just reasons thought post facto by humans, after the prohibition on showing too much skins came down from God. so those reasons can be right or it can be wrong.
But it doesn’t really matter, because if God says it is wrong than it is wrong.Ok, so maybe you people do not belief in this, so why applying the rules on us, you say.
Unfortunately, you are living between muslims, where the majority want to live according to their religion. its democracy right? some times minority just have to follow the majority.
After all, they force the minority pedophile in western countries to conform with the non pedo majority… why the double standard??And, most western countries also have some laws against public indecency: try walking nude in the main street in london for example. It’s the same public morality law, it’s just that we have a higher standard of morality than the west.
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Enigmatic says:
Fair enough PN, thanks. surely beats nothing at all.
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—andrey : its democracy right? some times minority just have to follow the majority.
right, but it doesn’t applied on culture, dress code, etc. for instance, Javanese is the biggest population in Indonesia, but it doesn’t necessary impose the other tribes to wear their clothes right?
—and for the nude walk in the streets of London
i think the example is too far, if a person do things like that, he/she must be crazy, drunk or has mental disturbance, and he would not go to a prison but to a lunatic asylum for his/her mental checked. why would a normal person do things like that. or maybe he /she just got robbed
lets imagine this :
a couple love each other and they are kissing at a beach, or lets even say they are doing French kiss, and there is a man who are sexually aroused because of that scene – have they violate the law chapter 1?
and since there are law chapter 22 and 33
the dirty minded man knows these chapter, are they punished by 4 years prison or 2000 million fine?isn’t it funny? even everybody can play cops
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maju -right, but it doesn’t applied on culture, dress code, etc. for instance, Javanese is the biggest population in Indonesia, but it doesn’t necessary impose the other tribes to wear their clothes right?
wrong analogy. the right one will be if most of javanese want such a law to be imposed, which they do not. So you do not have a case where a majority want a “javanese clothes law”, unlike the pornography law.
maju- a couple love each other and they are kissing at a beach, or lets even say they are doing French kiss, and there is a man who are sexually aroused because of that scene – have they violate the law chapter 1?
me:
i think the example is too far, if a person do things like french kissing in public, he/she must be crazy, drunk or has mental disturbance. why would a normal person do things like that.definition of normalcy is different across cultures, it might be normal for a french to french kiss in public, but it is not in muslim/asian society.
I dont think the law require an actual man to get aroused. they will use common sense, and their society’s common sense on sexuality is much stricter than the west.
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Mets says:
What about imagery of beastiality, the possession of child pornography, and homesexuality porn…..
Very vague and opened with loop holes….
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Purba Negoro says:
Maju, Enigma and other intellectuals-
In discussion with some legal friends, who have yet to form a full learned opinion on this Law (I will post comments from Law faculty academics as soon as they become available to me)- it appears there are a number of ambiguities:Private viewing or ownership of erotica or porn- especially within context of stable (even Muslim) marriage
What is strictly defined as obscene, denigrating or repulsive?Here are some terms very poorly clarified within the Law:
I argue the men prefix connotates commercial or public of the attached root word
Section 4
States: menggandakan, menyebarluaskan, menyiarkan, mengimpor, mengekspor, menawarkan, memperjualbelikan, menyewakan, atau menyediakan pornografi yang memuat:All are reasonably clear aside from mebayar? (not covered), and menyediakan is a very abstract word- it is even hard to describe in Engilsh.
I have only used such a word myself to describe report or even food (definition = to prepare or set aside for a later date)According to szeveral dictionary this may mean:
allocate,accomodate, appropriate, bear, devote, furnish, give, prepare, provide, purvey or reserveThen the term menyimpan has ambiguity as well.
Defined alternately as garner, keep, stash, store, stow, tuck, preserve, save .I argue the ambiguity of the Law and flexibilty of application of terms are for multiple purposes:
bribery
defeat of the law in time due to its’ own internal flaws and faults
flexibilty to apply the law as subjectively as possible.However the Main Purpose of the Law is to destroy commercialization and spread of Porn- which in the past five years I have seen grow enormously in Indonesia- and I find it disgusting, inappropriate and vulgar in the extreme.
We are not a land full of whores like Singapore, Thailand nor the Philippines and we should not cheapen ourselves like them.
Many establishments, mainly alien ethnic minority owned now iniclude full nude acts as a means of attracting as manby patrons as possible.
Such places as Embassy, Dragonfly, the club behind Plaza Senayan and new specific ethnic minority owned Porn and Strip bars that seem to have sprung up in Thamrin and other such area.
It is well known around Hai Lai, Kota and Ancol are many Chinese member-only clubs which regularly have sex-parties and swinger parties.
There are many naugty private clubs alo in North Jakarta, Tangerang and Bekasi as well- also owned by these opportunistic greedy ethnics.
Even in South Jakarta we are seeing horrble Hong Kong like members club like King’s where nudity is common.Lately on the news- one place owned by such a greedy ethnic was shut down permanently by Police. They had been officially warned several times by Police to stop their nudity, sexual exhibitions and sleaze during Ramadan- but they outright refused.
I predict they will be the first to bear full weight of the Porn Laws as a public example
Also- many Muslims have been very disgusting. I heard from my maids, that when they went to traditional market 2 weeks ago- some Mikrolet were playing very, very vulgar Japanese or Chinese Porn on colour TV to public, with loudspeaker.
These disgusting Muslim people were selling Porn VCD for Rp 40,000 – in full view of children- with crowds of young children watching- and tables of Porn VCD with porn album covers on full display- even sold many to children.This happened not 100 metres from a large mosque!
How disgusting is this- worse than even private club. They are very lucky they were not strung up and hanged.
This has happened many times too in Bogor and eslewhere- during the Ramadan.I hear from my daughter some of her schoolfriend make handphone porn of themself to be a porn VCD celebrity.
Indeed, how times have changed for the worse.I am in full agreement with the protection of women and children, and I hope the Law is very strictly applied to these low-life who exploit porn for commercial purposes.
My fear is in its ambiguity, essentially harmless and law abiding people may get entrapped and may be an opportunity for Islamics to consolidate their power.
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(definition of normalcy is different across cultures)
therefore we must respect those differences, let people act their own culture, you do yours and i do mine, we live together. as long as the behavior don’t hurt / harm others
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(definition of normalcy is different across cultures)
therefore we must respect those differences, let people act their own culture, you do yours and i do mine, we live together. as long as the behavior don’t hurt / harm others
pornography harms the mind.
anyway, we respect your right to french kiss in france if the law there allowed it, but you should respect our right to disallow it in indonesia. -
Often people wonder why many political parties in Indonesia try to force the pornography law. Also, do Indonesians need such a law?
There are several reasons why the proponents believe this law. I add my comment on each of them.
the-reasons-behind-of-the-indonesian-pornography-law-with-comments
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Pakmantri says:
After all, they force the minority pedophile in western countries to conform with the non pedo majority… why the double standard??
I hope you are not what I think you were saying, are you?? 🙁
pornography harms the mind.
Really??? Whose mind? 😀
Are you assuming that all Indonesians are morally corrupt, dirty minded and so stupid that they cannot control of their own desire and action? 🙁I guess the government has to cut the internet access to all Indonesian then, eh?!
Would not it be better if the DPR are fighting for a better “Undang-undang perlindungan anak dan wanita” instead?
Peace.
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andrey said :
But it doesn’t really matter, because if God says it is wrong than it is wrong.
and when i gave analogy about Javanese cultural clothes you said :
wrong analogy. the right one will be if most of Javanese want such a law to be imposed, which they do not. So you do not have a case where a majority want a “Javanese clothes law”, unlike the pornography law.comment :
whose God? anyway you are directly admit if there is an imposing of particular religion to be applied to other religions
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The Elucidations to the bill deal with issues of bestiality, necrophilia, oral and anal sex, as well as lesbian and homosexual sex.
Pak Mantri…
Indonesia already has a child protection law. In terms of protecting women some might argue that the law on domestic violence would protect women. Whether these are sufficient or fit for purpose is a different argument of course.
PN…
Not sure that all of the bracketed stuff you have in the translation is in the actual bill or is it?
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perseus says:
Personally, I don’t think this ban will be effective at all. The internet is awash with porn and blocking every racy site in the world would be like the labour of Sisyphus. It is a bit like King Canute wading out to stop the tide. Hopeless. Well, politicians must be seen to be trying to do something. It is the nature of the political beast.
Ethically, I am untroubled by porn. Images of people having sex simply do not offend me. They are more likely to bore me. Everyone likes sex. I am more offended by eejits with antiquated 7th century moralities imposing their fossilized ideas on everyone else!
However, I do not support it being sold in open view of minors. Nor do I support any use of minors in the production of porn.
I look forward to porn and prostitution scandals engulfing the Indonesian political classes and I expect the youth of Indonesia to completely ignore and disobey this futile law.
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@ Rob – from my work experience in the UK definitions is key ..and for me if this is they way they are heading for legislation, a strong implementation framework needs to be put in place as it feels too broad with too many gaps…in the UK for example whilst it is illegal to hold child porn, it is still not a criminal offence under the Obscene Publications Act…
This thread and the other similar topic discussions forum is very interesting, especially when I am due to go back to Indonesia next year to work in this area….
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Mets…
You’re coming back to Indonesia to work in the porn industry? Big move! 😀
Just Kidding!
The problem is the definition and the scope for interpretation. There will be issues of consistency and uniformity among the laws covering the same basic material.
The bill is problematic.
With a bit of luck the amendments to the criminal code will make a reappearance for your return to Indonesia. Now there is a fun bill to discuss.
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I would like to object on moral policing, but now that I think of it, is there anyone that takes law seriously these days?
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Pakmantri says:
The problem is the definition and the scope for interpretation. There will be issues of consistency and uniformity among the laws covering the same basic material.
The bill is problematic.
Agree 100%, the bill as it is now is very dangerous and too broad for interpretation, specially these days with the rise of fundamentalism/fanaticism.
The bigger problem is the DPRs don’t really care for the impact of this bill to the population when it become laws as long as they are re-elected for the next term. To the DPRs debating this bill is just wasting time and no money in it. They are more interested in the ‘fit and proper test” process for the BUMN candidate positions, that’s where the money is, where the candidate bids and the position goes to the highest bidder.
I sense a new revolution is brewing.
Merdeka, bung.
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bodha says:
@andrey: Why does it matter to you what other people do in private? As long as no one is forcing you to watch porn, your mind is not being corrupted; also, it’s not your job to prevent the corruption of the minds of other consenting adults. You compare cultures, but the only difference here is that in France, people are free to kiss each other or not when and where they want to, while in Indonesia, they are not free to do that.
Also, democracy doesn’t mean that a majority overrules a minority. It means that the majority has to protect the minority; it also means that people have to have the freedom to do what they want as long as they don’t infringe on others’ freedoms. And someone watching porn online in their own house is not infringing on your freedom at all.
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Jabber…
It is not whether they take law seriously but the fact that the law would be on the statute books meaning that it would be possible to then pick and choose your serious moments of law enforcement…
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jees PN, I’m just an 18-year-old student… not some intellectual…
but I don’t know what you have against Singapore such that you call it a ‘land full of whores’. yes maybe that’s because the goverment isn’t THAT strict in getting sexy girls to cover up their legs and all… they dont care in fact, but calling it a land full of whores is a complete insult to singapore and singaporeans. aside from the tammy case (which was blown out by her enemies and not her) i don’t know of any cases of people making ‘handphone porn of themself to be a porn VCD celebrity.’ not in my last 7 years of education here.
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foolosophy says:
I agree with perseus. I think the porn law isn’t going to be effective at all. Learn from the history! Humans strived to rebel to the law either in action or in their minds.
Gus Dur once said about the prosecutions towards Christian churches: Violence Muslims made the wrong move. Bombing, closing up churches by force, killing pastors, burning Christian villages; all the prosecutions will not make Christians dissapear. Instead it opens more and more prayer houses. Today there are more churches than it was before!
IF ONLY Muslims give them freedom instead of persecutions, freedom to do whatever they want; then what will happen? Christians will be divided by themselves. Churches will close themselves because none will come.Same thing happen in pornographic law. Tighting the hold will not make the problem disappear, instead it just makes the problem sporadic uncontrollable by the government.
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Harvey says:
Everyone ultimately does what they want to. NO LAW can keep people from sinning. But sometimes FEAR of government does effect their practices. Government is a function given by God for the punishment of EVIL DOERS. And praise to those that do GOOD.
Porn is worthless of NO GOOD, to individuals or society according to God’s laws.
I do not speak of whatever goes on in the bedroom of a consenting husband and wife between them in their privacy before God. This is UNDEFILED as the marriage bed is according to God’s laws.
Publicly, was it right for Jacob to KISS Rachel? Did they ever kiss again in the next 7 years before marriage???
Again when, “Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and, behold, Isaac [was] sporting with Rebekah his wife.” Was the King sexually aroused by what he observed? He saw enough to figure out that she was NOT HIS SISTER, but instead his wife. And Isaac had lied and broken the ninth commandment
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Which could have caused Abimelech to covet after Rebekah for she was a beautiful woman.
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife,
And they were neighbours for him to look out his window and see this. So what others do — does effect us doesn’t it.?
In Egypt when Father Abraham said Sarah was his sister, so that Pharaoh desired her for his harem was Pharaoh sexually aroused by something he had seen Abraham do to Sarah? Kissing or even some pure loving actions and attractions can instill and raise desire in an on-looker who is not sexually fulfilled.
So self-control is always needed by everyone. Not to perform public acts and also not to be fascinated and attracted by things we might accidentally see but were not intended to view.
But we know that the law [is] good, if a man use it lawfully;
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.LAWS will not stop all crime and lawlessness. Only a CONVERTED HEART desiring to do the best in the sight of God and men will. Joseph was offered sex, but left his coat and run for his life. Joseph was innocent, but yet convicted by government and liars.
So LAWS likewise can be used by EVIL MEN to do EVIL to the GOOD. This is when GOOD must stand against EVIL because God will be the FINAL JUDGE of everyone of us individually.
And those of us who are serious about pleasing our God and hating evil, do not need any porn laws… but the porn laws are needed for those that know NOT God and would also hurt innocent people. Hence government is to be a good servant to the people and society whereby maintaining a good culture; otherwise it is slowly lost because we failed to be our brother’s keeper.
The end is the proof of whether their religion is TRUE and their God powerful but more so whether we individually have yielded to the law of our God allowing HIM to be KING in our individual hearts and lives. You shall know them by their fruits.
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Andrey Says,
“Unfortunately, you are living between muslims, where the majority want to live according to their religion. its democracy right? some times minority just have to follow the majority.”
You are wrong if you think imposing your values on others has an equivalence in Western Law. In most Western countries the will of the majority is tempered by a defined set of human rights as well as a legal tradition that believes that you can do as you please along as your actions to not harm others. Unfortunately no such tradition exists in Islamic Law which is what this legislation is all about. It is nothing more than Sharia by stealth.
I am curious though, is the traditional display of the young boys mutilated penis to all guests in the sunat ceremony a violation of this law?
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Callum,
do I smell the stench of smug (yet baseless) moral superiority from the Anglo community?
I hope not.Speaking of Sharia- has not the UK pathetically pandered and surrendered to its’ own domeciled hostile aliens for approval Jewish and Sharia law?
You do have a point. Somethings are best left in private=- it tends to be the kampung classes that behave in so undignified a fashion.
For everyone within my family- it was undertaken by a urologist or similar doctor in a hospital- then the boy driven home for the party.Europeans do not practice sunat as they have an ingrained fear of being identified as Jews.
When the Nazis first took American POW’s they erroneously thought nearly all were Jews- until luckily for them- A German-speaking American doctor explained US Army had made compulsory circumcision rule for all Privates (no pun intended) to combat unnecessary hospitalizations of non-combat injury- from STD’s and balanitis.
Even today- your Basra British soldiers ridiculed by their American comrades for their European willy- and have come home sporting a new American look to their wife’s enormous pleasant surprise
Your specious reasoning is not typical of your usual very high standard Mr Callum.
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Jabber…
It is not whether they take law seriously but the fact that the law would be on the statute books meaning that it would be possible to then pick and choose your serious moments of law enforcement…
Damn, that ruined my thought-terminating cliché. 🙁
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callum:
In most Western countries the will of the majority is tempered by a defined set of human rights as well as a legal tradition that believes that you can do as you please along as your actions to not harm others.And, that set of human rights and legal tradition were defined by.. who else but the majority
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Observer says:
Unfortunately certain factions within Indonesia sems to be determined to drag Indonesia back to the stone age and to close its doors to the rest of the world. It is only a matter of time before it succeeds, kasihan deh lo Indonesia.
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